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John Dellaporta@johndellaporta.bsky.social |
A few years ago, Jon Lovett floated a theory that media treats Democrats like protagonists - to be challenged, accounted, and forced to be behave in growth-oriented ways - while the GOP are treated like antagonists - immutable, expected to disrupt, thematic obstacles. Thinking about that a lot.
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Ember Bite Aegle
@emberaegle.bsky.social
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I dunno. Throughout the Trump years I had the distinct feeling they were covering him not as news but as the protagonist of a fantasy novel. Even when the news was bad it felt framed like he was the hero "Can Trump keep his cool and hold his allies together when everyone loses hope around him?!?!?!"
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Rich Wanket
@richwanket.bsky.social
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The @nytimes.com every time someone criticizes them.
www.google.com/search?sca_e...
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Laura Ruby
@thatlauraruby.bsky.social
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Similarly, someone on the bad place once said that the media treats Dems like women (to be challenged, thwarted) and the GOP like (white) men (powerful, immutable, destructive and yet blameless because even their destructive power is as "natural" as a tornado). I've thought about this a lot, too.
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G's Inevitable Flash Sideways
@gennisaisquoi.bsky.social
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I mean, that's a literal, denotative truth, yah? In our system, the left has the task of manifesting growth/change & the right has the task of hindering it, whether for social or financial reasons. They're meant to work in tandem, a single PushMe-PullYou entity; I don't think media caused the split.
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@prairieguy2623.bsky.social
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Great thread. Not sure it accounts for the media’s habit of focusing on Democratic missteps and peccadilloes almost to the exclusion of the massive malfeasance and corruption of Republicans, but otherwise it makes a lot of sense.
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Crazy Cat Lady Abroad
@crazycatladyabroad.bsky.social
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I can see this in the US. But even the nominally "left" media in the UK does this too. The kid-glove treatment of deranged far-right crackpots like Farage is appalling.
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B. Travern
@btravern.bsky.social
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Do you remember the date and venue? Google is of course broken when it comes to finding anything these days. This CNN interview with Audie Cornish back in April is the best I've been able to turn up. (Your elaboration about the respective narrative roles drives home this media theory.) Cheers,
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Adam Bates
@abates.bsky.social
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Democrats: you have to support us because we love democracy and the other guys are literal fascists Also Democrats: hey how come you hold us to a higher standard than literal fascists? I can stop treating Dems as if I expect even a modicum of humanity out of them, but I doubt they'll like it.
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Yastreblyansky
@yastreblyansky.bsky.social
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In a way it's justified, or would be if only they could recognize that's what they're doing. Democrats and journalists both belong to the "reality-based community", they speak very similar languages. But journalists cling so hard to the belief that they can/should take the "view from nowhere".
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Apple Tony 3
@appletony3.bsky.social
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Seriously!
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Tim W. Burke
@timwburke.bsky.social
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I'd add that the disruption is meant to reveal some hidden truth needing to be addressed (old family grievance="flyover states are ignored").
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A. Fresnel
@fresnel.bsky.social
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I misread this at first and then read the entire thread in Jon Lovitz's voice which actually kinda helped with the existential despair.
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Trampoline Academy
@trampschool.bsky.social
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OK, but Biden still shit the bed on Thursday, and that’s today’s problem.
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randy fresh
@randyfresh.bsky.social
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i misread that to hilarious results.
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@catladie.bsky.social
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Sheldon vs Georgie
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@boredompeejeterson.bsky.social
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I think there are also just people who like to pretend they are liberal or impartial but the give advice that always is liberal have to be more racist.
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TJ
@tjdurrant.bsky.social
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So, literally the definition of what they are? Or how could a reactionary party not be antagonistic obstacles to progress?
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Nick Weininger
@nweininger.bsky.social
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What do you think the NY Times could say that would convince any significant number of Republicans to behave better?
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JeannetteBlue
@jeannetteblue.bsky.social
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Explains a lot really. Yes, I’m going to learn to repeat this often in public.
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Liza Mazel
@lizamazel.bsky.social
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My take is that they're doing the thing where an abuser is treated like a force of nature and the well meaning people who at least try but do not fully succeed in stopping them (not to mention the victims) are given all the responsibility-and blame. They COULD look at themselves, the media
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John Dellaporta
@johndellaporta.bsky.social
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This was meant to explain how the media can believe they have a leftward slant - viewing Dems as their “heroes” - while simultaneously playing out a rightward bias by “bothsidesing” and pricing in low expectations for Republican humanity.
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Vicki Meagher
@vickimeagher.bsky.social
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I would say: the media treats Democrats like women and treats Republicans like men.
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Wasnu schon wieder!?
@wasnu.bsky.social
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The list goes on. The GOP and the media had a lot of chances to end Trumps run for presidency
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r
@recombobulating.bsky.social
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A lot of people also seem to hold voters to the first standard but politicians to the second 😞
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Ben Feddersen
@snoozebuttonben.bsky.social
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This is the actual expression of the overwhelming Democratic bias of journalists. Republicans are "others", and to a liberal, others are to be respected, understood, and included. Democrats are "us" and to a liberal "we" are to be questioned and challenged and pushed to improve.
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@uweklages.bsky.social
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The narcissist Trump is constantly lying and cheating, even at golf.
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Bill Anderson
@anderbill.bsky.social
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I just cannot comprehend this. Many, if not most, news media folk, seem to behave as if, no matter what happens, they will be unharmed by any consequences. Climate and politics reporting are two examples that come to mind for me.
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Blue Skynet
@billyb2123.bsky.social
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Democrats treat themselves this way
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HuddledMass
@huddledmass.bsky.social
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Kind of a profound insight, actually
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Michael
@michael60647.bsky.social
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Hell no. Convicted felon, serial rapist, more crap. He's ok, right? Or, 80yo who has stuttered since childhood? Tells truth, still stutters. Oh, hell no, not the old guy. BS Vote Democratic.
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@shywoof.bsky.social
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I just had this thought the other day.
bsky.app/profile/shyw...
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@docjoe1986.bsky.social
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There is definitely something to this. The media aren’t a monolith, so it varies from outlet to outlet of course, but there is a lot of truth. I think that a lot of them want to be seen as supporting liberal causes while assuming republicans are going to win. Virtue-signaling if you will.
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HOT BIRD SUMMER 🥔🐄
@thatloud.cloud
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GrumpyBen
@grumpyben.bsky.social
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Ah, thank you, that has given words to a long-nagging thought.
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Anthrodiva
@anthrodiva.bsky.social
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Well they ARE villains
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RTOIT
@rtoit.bsky.social
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I keep saying media is treating Biden like a woman in a man's job. Dismissed, ignored, underestimated, constantly picked on for not being good enough--because she's a woman who shouldn't be doing a 'man's job'. Dance like Fred Astaire, but in high heels and backwards.
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JC
@maxjes.bsky.social
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I buy that in the aggregate, but not for the day after the debate meltdown. It was so swift and visceral because they were bought in for the horse race, and they were undermined by his performance. In simpler English, it’s not that Biden has egg on his face, but that they do by proxy.
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@greekmamaearth.bsky.social
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Yes! And that liberal biased woke MSM has been reporting in real time for multiple news cycles how poorly he did. NYT has called for him to withdraw from the race. Would Fox even report on it if DJT had done so poorly? Facts don’t match GOP fiction.
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Shad Murasaki
@shadumura.bsky.social
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You can't stop the GOP if democrats keep stabbing you in the fucking back, at every turn.
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Fnord Borgly
@borgly.bsky.social
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Basic white hats and black hats script. You introduce the players and stakes in the first act. You need to manufacture a moral crisis for the white hats and question their leadership in the second act, and you better make sure the black hats *nearly* win in the third act.
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Ellis Weiner
@ellisw.bsky.social
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The more extreme the right, the more pampering them and blunting coverage of them is necessary to seem "unbiased." "Is it feasible, to round up 11 million immigrants and confine them in camps? Opinions differ."
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Ellis Weiner
@ellisw.bsky.social
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That is brilliant. When Dems try to enact something progressive, they're chided for not being "realistic." When Republicans do something regressive, it's treated as business as usual. (Nice phrase. It IS business as usual.) It's accepted as being in their *character* to be destructive.
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KevDog
@kevdog.bsky.social
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Given that the press often talks about “the narrative,” this makes perfect sense.
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Solaire of Astora 🇺🇸🇺🇦🌐
@s0laireofastora.bsky.social
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here's why
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Gluten-free Seitan
@davidjorgonson.bsky.social
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That's Murc's Law. "Only Democrats have agency". Credit belongs to Murc, a poster in the comments section of the Lawyers, Guns and Money blog
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Justin Noormand
@justin-noormand.bsky.social
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This has made me angry for over a decade. R’s are rarely held accountable as human beings or asked to move left for the benefit of the majority of Americans who disagree with them. They’re treated as fascistic forces of nature instead of people participating in a democracy. It’s only gotten worse.
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Roger Giner-Sorolla
@rogerthegs.bsky.social
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But antagonists who must be treated fairly, all the same. The clever boys and girls must simply try to out-clever them, never exercise power or call them out. It's a pattern very familiar to how some academic managers handle quiet systematic defunding.
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TubaPeter.com
@tubapeter.bsky.social
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This makes a gross kind of sense. I've learned to treat the difficult people in my life as immutable forces of nature. Expecting them to change is like expecting a mountain to change. I have to adapt if I want to improve my situation.
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Theta Salmon
@thetasalmon.bsky.social
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Similar comparison: Democrats treated as adults: Responsible, sensible, accountable & capable of shame & self-reflection “Must do better” Republicans treated as over-tired toddlers: Whiny, angry, destructive, hate rules, irrational, cruel & incapable of shame or self-reflection “What can you do?”
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Nick Garcia
@nwgarcia.bsky.social
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Yes. It's also convenient that treating Republicans this way means you will receive fewer plausibly serious death threats.
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Eric Nelson
@emnelson.bsky.social
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My take is perhaps more cynical. The press is afraid of what the GOP will do to them if they attack and Trump still wins. Dems won’t exact material revenge if they’re attacked but win. So the MSM primarily attacks Biden to placate the GOP and look like they’re doing their job.
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fluids_guru
@fluidsguru.bsky.social
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It's the asymmetry of political expectations. The same mechanism plays out in Australia.
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Dr. Samantha Hancox-Li
@sjshancoxli.bsky.social
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technically this insight is due to murc! that is why it is called murc's law!
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RockWils1
@rockwils1.bsky.social
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Bob Q!
@robotjq.bsky.social
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This is making me irreparably angry
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Ranylt Richildis
@ranylt.bsky.social
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🤯
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Jeff (no, the other one)
@jeff-notheotherone.bsky.social
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Saw that or similar idea that the R’s true position is as back benchers who only disrupt all progress (see Gingrich) and that they’re at sea when they have control (also too busy stealing everything that isn’t nailed down to actually govern). Media certainly helps w their framing
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Nolan Zugernat
@zugernat.bsky.social
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That’s such a perfect way to describe it
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@jarus.bsky.social
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Jon Lovett is the podcast bro with the consistently most cutting takes. If it wasn’t for him and Ben Rhodes crooked media would be worthless to me. I really wish he got more purchase as a pundit. His first impressions of the Thursday debate really helped focused what I was feeling that night
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Roberta Paikoff Holzmueller
@birdyholz.bsky.social
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He's not wrong...
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Made In Taiwan™️🇹🇼
@rosenbergite.bsky.social
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📌
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Castlecomics11
@toby11.bsky.social
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This tracks. Plus, I think there is just an understanding that the GOP has no shame and its voters don't consider ANYTHING Trump does to be disqualifying. That's been obvious since Access Hollywood.
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Your Brain on D&D
@silentstars.bsky.social
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Politics as written by pro wrestling
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Cardinal Signs
@cardinalsigns.bsky.social
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Pretty smart guy, that Lovett.
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Chris Wilhelm
@cwilhelm24.bsky.social
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The ridiculous double standard the press has for the two parties has never been more blatant. This is as good an accounting for it as I've seen.
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LessBadProblems.bsky.social
@lessbadproblems.bsky.social
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Murc's Law, "The widespread assumption that only Democrats have any agency or causal influence over American politics", has been around since at least 2017. Longer I am sure.
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@cynicalwoman.bsky.social
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I'm a fiction writer, and that makes a lot of sense to me. We are caught in a novel, yet the consequences are real, not fiction.
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K* Smith
@ksmithmi.bsky.social
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Of course, the Lefty/Liberal types who constantly criticize the NYT or WaPo (instead of all the Right Wing rags) are also engaging in that same protagonist/antagonist thinking. "Here's a 32 post thread about why the NYT used the wrong word in a headline..." vs "Newsmax just told 325 lies. FIN"
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Apples&Pomegranates
@applespomegranates.bsky.social
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And that Jon Lovett's name? Noam Chomsky
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DreamsOfGerontius
@dreamsofgerontius.bsky.social
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Another take: justifiable fear of reprisal. Right wing capitalists invented "cancel culture" as a weapon against mild criticism long before progressives employed it as a tool for societal change
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